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Post by Lenny on Oct 12, 2007 18:31:51 GMT -5
I see Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize. It may also mean he's going to run for Presidency or on the same ticket as Hillary.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2007 18:42:22 GMT -5
JUST THE MENTION OF EITHER OF THOSE TWO LEFTYS,
IS A GOOD REASON TO PUKE.
TWO NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS JIMMY CARTER AND AL GORE.
WHAT COULD THE SELECTION COMMITEE OF BEEN THINKING? UGH.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2007 21:11:27 GMT -5
maybe they have been thinking that global warming is a real problem
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2007 21:14:49 GMT -5
Why would Al Gore run for presidency? He's got it too good now... An Academy Award, A Nobel Peace Prize, none of the presidency pressure...
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Post by pegleg on Oct 13, 2007 4:22:31 GMT -5
maybe they have been thinking that global warming is a real problem Then again maybe they are misusing science. As far as I know, the Gore has no background in the scientific method, nor scientific research, despite "inventing" the internet. Especially when he says inane things like the "debate is over", there is a "consensus", negotiates a Kyoto treaty, etc. If you like, I'd be happy to post a lot of data and science research to show how this is just another Left wing political gambit. We could start with the shrinking of the Mars polar caps (you really should look into that and ask why is Mars warming ?). Or the hundreds of peer reviewed papers disputing the assertions of the Left. Or the methodology of measuring of the "global temperature", now, and in the past (have you ever thought about how that is done, or why NASA just revised it's estimates?). How they "determined that the "average" GLOBAL temperature increased 0.74 deg C in the past 100 years. Or the exaggerations/falsities in gore's propaganda piece that even has the Brit courts insisting on disclaimers before showing in schools (for instance the Kilomanjaro ice cap shrinkage). Or how the global warming predictions for the next 50 years are based on a computer MODEL, when our current weather models can't predict weather next week, let alone next month. Or how the dire predictions for horrendous hurricane seasons for the past 2 years have been completely wrong. Or how, if there is a global climate change going on, that there is almost nothing that we (humans, esp. in the US) can do about it, and that we should spend our resources on learning to adapt to it. Or, in fact, whether global warming wouldn't be an actual improvement (ever been to Yosemite valley? That was formed by, and filled with, a glacier at one time). Or how science has not yet begun to understand the El Nino effect (only discovered in last 20 years, or so). Or how the earth has gone through heating and cooling cycles throughout its existence. In fact, gore's chief science mouthpiece was predicting dire consequences of global COOLING not more than 15 years ago. BTW, if Gore is right, what the heck is the Left doing when they advocate rebuilding New Orleans below sea level? And why aren't they going after the chief global polluters, China and India, which make the US appear to be pikers in the smoke department. None of this is to say we shouldn't strive for less pollution. And I do understand that some need to believe things, and people, like this.... it's the only belief system they have.... But this political/Hollywood hype is ludicrous, and dangerous.... and in the end.... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 6:33:22 GMT -5
maybe they have been thinking that global warming is a real problem Then again maybe they are misusing science. As far as I know, the Gore has no background in the scientific method, nor scientific research, despite "inventing" the internet. Especially when he says inane things like the "debate is over", there is a "consensus", negotiates a Kyoto treaty, etc. If you like, I'd be happy to post a lot of data and science research to show how this is just another Left wing political gambit. We could start with the shrinking of the Mars polar caps (you really should look into that and ask why is Mars warming ?). Or the hundreds of peer reviewed papers disputing the assertions of the Left. Or the methodology of measuring of the "global temperature", now, and in the past (have you ever thought about how that is done, or why NASA just revised it's estimates?). How they "determined that the "average" GLOBAL temperature increased 0.74 deg C in the past 100 years. Or the exaggerations/falsities in gore's propaganda piece that even has the Brit courts insisting on disclaimers before showing in schools (for instance the Kilomanjaro ice cap shrinkage). Or how the global warming predictions for the next 50 years are based on a computer MODEL, when our current weather models can't predict weather next week, let alone next month. Or how the dire predictions for horrendous hurricane seasons for the past 2 years have been completely wrong. Or how, if there is a global climate change going on, that there is almost nothing that we (humans, esp. in the US) can do about it, and that we should spend our resources on learning to adapt to it. Or, in fact, whether global warming wouldn't be an actual improvement (ever been to Yosemite valley? That was formed by, and filled with, a glacier at one time). Or how science has not yet begun to understand the El Nino effect (only discovered in last 20 years, or so). Or how the earth has gone through heating and cooling cycles throughout its existence. In fact, gore's chief science mouthpiece was predicting dire consequences of global COOLING not more than 15 years ago. BTW, if Gore is right, what the heck is the Left doing when they advocate rebuilding New Orleans below sea level? And why aren't they going after the chief global polluters, China and India, which make the US appear to be pikers in the smoke department. None of this is to say we shouldn't strive for less pollution. And I do understand that some need to believe things, and people, like this.... it's the only belief system they have.... But this political/Hollywood hype is ludicrous, and dangerous.... and in the end.... I'm hanging with you Pegleg. |
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Post by Lenny on Oct 13, 2007 6:41:24 GMT -5
The Sky Is Falling! The Sky is Falling! I believe what is happening to the earth goes way beyond science and the wisdom of man!
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Post by Joan on Oct 13, 2007 7:51:49 GMT -5
:)Oh no, not Hillary and Gore!!! Once was enough with the Clintons and Gore.
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Post by Fran Gyomory on Oct 13, 2007 10:04:54 GMT -5
Amazing, Gore is the second moron to get the Nobel....first was Jimmy AH Carter!!
Gore and Hillary.....good grief I am going to be sick........
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 10:07:43 GMT -5
Ok, I'm confused... When the left says the world is ending due to global warming, they're being overdramatic... When the right says the world is ending due to terrorism, they're being overdramatic.. Why do we need a left or right at all? Why cant we just have people who are practical and independent?
It would save a lot of the infighting that goes on -- which actually prevents solutions because no matter what is said, the other side says it is wrong and full of lies and propaganda... More time is spent fighting about why solutions WON'T work rather than actually trying to think about legit alternative solutions that WILL...
I honestly believe that if the solution was said by somebody on their own side, they would be all for it... If Bush said global warming was real, the right would be all for it, and the left would say all the right were kooks -- AND if Gore said fighting terrorism was the most important thing, the left would be all for it and the right would be kooks for fighting it...
Enough with the fighting already... Both sides have some good points and both sides have agendas that range from simply being misinformed to being intentionally malicious...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 12:35:38 GMT -5
james --you are right --- as they say you should not discuss religion - politics or sex --- by the way the missionary position is the only positiion lol
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Post by Barry on Oct 13, 2007 13:06:57 GMT -5
[/quote]
Lets hope not today or tomorrow or next Thursday
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 16:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely not next Thursday, I've got a meeting that day....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 18:32:08 GMT -5
JIMMY CARTER
AL GORE
YASSAR ARAFAT
MICHAIL GORBACHEV
ALL RECIPIENTS.
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO RONALD REAGAN HE ENDED THE COLD WAR
BROUGHT DOWN THE BERLIN WALL,
A GUY WHO REALLY DESERVED THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BREAKING UP OF THE USSR.
NO NO PEACE PRIZE FOR THE GREATEST PRESIDENT IN MY LIFETIME.
OH BTW WASNT ARAFAT A TERRORIST WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE BEING MURDERED.?
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Post by pegleg on Oct 13, 2007 23:42:30 GMT -5
Some other, international, insights: tinyurl.com/24ladvThere ain't a "consensus", the debate ain't over, and there isn't just one answer. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2007 23:52:13 GMT -5
and there is no spoon... (see the Matrix movie if you didnt get that)
There will never be a consensus in politics... Now the critics of the global warming critics will need to be heard... and then the critics of the global warming critics critics... and then the critics of the global warming critics critics critics have to have their say... And so on and so on...
And the terrorists and global warming win...
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Post by pegleg on Oct 14, 2007 0:49:11 GMT -5
You make some good points, James. And you seem to hold positions similar to ones I held years ago. But let me just expand a little on your thoughts. When the left says the world is ending due to global warming, they're being overdramatic... When the right says the world is ending due to terrorism, they're being overdramatic.. Why do we need a left or right at all? Well, unfortunately, there is disagreement on most public issues today. Actually, there has never been universal agreement on any issue of significance. Human nature. Lots of ways to skin cats (apologies to cat lovers, I'm one too;-). That's why we had a revolution in 1775-1783, a Civil War in 1861-65, WWI, WWII and other wars. They get stepped around, over, and on, or just generally ignored. Or they get co-opted for some political purpose. Such people also tend not to be charismatic, nor have control of a bloody pulpit to develop support for their ideas. And many just don't want the limelight.Again, human nature. Before you can define a solution (if there is one) you, first, need agreement on what the problem is. Something that doesn't exist in re "global warming". Despite Al Gore's revelation that the "debate is over", and there is a "consensus" - there ain't no such thing, not in the scientific community, nor the political world. Not necessarily. In fact, Bush seems to be folding under the pressure, and buying into the Left's "global warming" view. As he has done on a number of issues that have cost him support from the Right, i.e. illegal immigration, the medicare drug plans, the Ted Kennedy education bill, campaign finance, the Dubai port deal, Harriet Meyers for the SC, etc. I don't think so. See above. These issues aren't true or false because of who supports them. Those who support specific issues do so because they believe them to be true or false (or have some ulterior motive). You can pretty much look at any major issue today and identify who the supporters and detractors are. They gravitate to one side or the other. Be it abortion, taxation, the war on terror, free speech, defense, etc. Unfortunately, if the public sits back and doesn't take the effort to understand and debate the issues, we'll end up with demigods holding all the power to decide how, whether, we will live. Which reminds me of a recent hillary quote:"I have a million ideas. The American people can't afford them all". Said just after she proposed, then withdrew, her idea to give every newborn $5K of your tax dollars, and then proposed giving everyone a $1K 401K program each year, again with your tax dollars. She's got 999,998 more such ideas. Just imho. |
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Post by Fran Gyomory on Oct 14, 2007 6:02:50 GMT -5
Pegleg, as usual you manage to make coherent points on current issues. I admire your ability to put it into words that all ca understand. You REALLY don't belong on the Left Coast!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 9:42:21 GMT -5
Hey Pegleg, I appreciate you taking the time to post a respectful and well-thought-out response to me... You make some points that made sense that i hadn't thought about... And because you were respectful and calm, I actually took the time to read and process it...
As you know, many political (and religious and Sox-Yankee) topics are hot buttons for people, and what they usually turn into are bullying "your side sucks" conversations and then both think the other person are jerks -- and most importantly shut down and immediately think ALL the other persons (and in essence the entire side) opinions are dumb...
Theres so much more that can be gained from calm & rational conversations... So thank you...
So now onto the meat of your response
You hit the nail on the head with this one... I can think of many people in history who were sincere in their beliefs, but got screwed over by the less-sincere-manipulators... Michael Collins is the easy reference case here... The best leaders are the ones who DONT want to lead, but just do it because there is no other choice...
Right, but its not that he believes in any of this stuff... I believe he is just running the numbers and seeing what is better for his overall "popularity"... And thats not picking on Bush there, its the way of all politicians... If George Steinbrenner was in politics, there is no way he would consider firing Joe Torre -- it would lose him too many fans.. (watching the Bronx is Burning series on DVD, so thats whats on my mind) -- but nobody knows what he'll do since he's an emotional leader... Did he learn from the Billy Martin days? Will he realize how loved Joe Torre is? Does he want to make a statement that failure doesnt cut it? Stay tuned..
true...its easy to forget that just because someone says theres a problem, doesnt mean there actually is a problem... The scare tactics that people use to push their agenda is ridiculous.. THAT GOES FOR BOTH SIDES -- Terrorism, Global warming, the Killer Bees are not as bad as the "pushers" and media make it out to be... By the way, buy my documentary or hundreds of thousands of people will be hurt because the terrorists are intentionally melting the polar ice caps...
I know you made other points Pegleg, but I'm running out of steam here... Thank you again...
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Post by pegleg on Oct 14, 2007 20:29:49 GMT -5
You REALLY don't belong on the Left Coast!!!!! Thanks Fran.... but I'm beginning to think that I should stay here to see the Great Earthquake that will swallow the Left- you know, the Apocalypse....    Just kiddin'!!! I think my wife is digging in her heels to stay in CA. "It's the climate.... " says she. But honey, it would be 40% cheaper to live almost anywhere else, says I... Forty, shmorty says she..... And so it goes on the Left coast....  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 20:42:03 GMT -5
After reading all of the above, I wish to congratulate all the players for the respectful way all the points pro and con were discussed. This scenario would NEVER have happened over at BITB!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 20:49:36 GMT -5
<Throwing a brick thru Fordham Mike's window right now for disrespecting me> LOL
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 21:14:09 GMT -5
<Throwing a brick thru Fordham Mike's window right now for disrespecting me> LOL  |
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Post by pegleg on Oct 14, 2007 23:34:59 GMT -5
... they usually turn into are bullying "your side sucks" conversations and then both think the other person are jerks -- and most importantly shut down and immediately think ALL the other persons (and in essence the entire side) opinions are dumb... Well, I figure... there's always time for that later. This is a blood sport, ya know. You should have seen some debates I was involved in about 10-15 years ago- some fellow dems, who turned out to be card carrying members of some other organizations- and were, in fact, movers and shakers in the CA dem party. You will find three things about my posts - I seldom start a controversial thread, my posts generally tend to reflect the tone of the msg I'm responding to, and 3rd.... I can't remember, age ya know....  But don't ever let that stop you from challenging my posts- I expect it, want it. In the past, those challenges converted me to the Far Right Wing Conspiracy. Perfect example...There are few, if any, in that category in American politics today, at least at the national level.I agree to some extent. But I think Bush has been less affected by polls than most previous presidents. I truly believe that his stance on immigration is heartfelt, but hugely misguided. It certainly doesn't conform to any poll I am aware of. I also think he made too many misguided attempts at bi-partisanship - which didn't win him any fans on either side. Ted Kennedy's "education" bill, the Medicare drug bill, for two.While I generally agree, I disagree, majorly, that Terrorism is not a severe threat. The fact that we have been able to thwart some 20 attempts since 9/11/01, doesn't mean the threat isn't real. See the UK, Spain, Iraq, and elsewhere. These people don't mean us well, and they would like nothing better than to out-do 9/11. Me too. But feel free to jump in, criticize, contradict, or even agree with, anything I post. Even if you think the wording I may use is ... harsh. That will usually be a reflection of the post I am responding, or just the result of not wanting to spend more time on a particular msg. Nothing personal intended. |
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Post by pegleg on Oct 15, 2007 2:40:51 GMT -5
After reading all of the above, I wish to congratulate all the players for the respectful way all the points pro and con were discussed. This scenario would NEVER have happened over at BITB! But... but... but... we ain't done yet!! It ain't over until someone calls me a nazi...... That's an old usenet rule!  |
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